Used PH-1r - is it really in original condition?
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Re: Used PH-1r - is it really in original condition?
Thanks Pepe!
Maybe I just let it be. I think I am just not that "I'll go to the police" kind of guy. It may be the most impertinent fraud I experinced (even if possibly unknowingly) but by far not the most expensive. It's just disappointing when people don't take responsibility for what they've sold you, I really don't understand this kind behavior.
After all this pedal is quite bizarre and unique and it even sounds pretty good I must admit (I wouldn't have paid a 100 bucks for that). I'll just mod the pedal: make it compatible with PSA 9V, reduce the output (that thing is too loud!) and whatever I can find.
Maybe I just let it be. I think I am just not that "I'll go to the police" kind of guy. It may be the most impertinent fraud I experinced (even if possibly unknowingly) but by far not the most expensive. It's just disappointing when people don't take responsibility for what they've sold you, I really don't understand this kind behavior.
After all this pedal is quite bizarre and unique and it even sounds pretty good I must admit (I wouldn't have paid a 100 bucks for that). I'll just mod the pedal: make it compatible with PSA 9V, reduce the output (that thing is too loud!) and whatever I can find.
"The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living."
- Pepe
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Re: Used PH-1r - is it really in original condition?
That thing is indeed pretty loud. I did a demo video with an early single screw version a while ago:
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Re: Used PH-1r - is it really in original condition?
That's a great demo and actually one of the videos i watched that convinced me to buy the pedal in the first place.
"The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living."
- laurie
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Re: Used PH-1r - is it really in original condition?
My opinions (to support my colleagues):
- The circuit board appears to be modern. PH-1R boards were laid-oud by hand - they are all curves and varying thicknesses of traces. The board in this pedal is laid out by CAD program. I have pics of boards for 5 PH-1R pedals in my archive, plus many I've found on-line, and none of them are machine laid-out.
- Resistors are wrong. Capacitors and opamps look OK to me. I have one in my archives with those components (including tantalum instead of paper electros). But it kind of doesn't matter if the entire board is a "fraud".
- Paint is definitely wrong. Plus it has been given a clear-coat by the look of it. Printing looks like non-Boss stencil. The case is almost certainly a re-house.
- Jacks are definitely wrong.
- Treadle and base rubbers are new - stick-on rubbers can be obtained from Roland so that might be what has happened here.
- Serial label is definitely a re-print. The numbers on the originals do not line up and are a different font.
- Pots are wrong.
It is definitely a not original, but it does have some value as a curiosity. Is it worth 100 Euros? Not to me. I'd pay $50 knowing it was a curiosity.
It feels like a huge amount of work. Perhaps this looks like the kind of project that someone would do "to see if they could do it"?
I'd be interested to know - how bright is the LED? LEDs on these pedals are old-tech and should be very dim.
- The circuit board appears to be modern. PH-1R boards were laid-oud by hand - they are all curves and varying thicknesses of traces. The board in this pedal is laid out by CAD program. I have pics of boards for 5 PH-1R pedals in my archive, plus many I've found on-line, and none of them are machine laid-out.
- Resistors are wrong. Capacitors and opamps look OK to me. I have one in my archives with those components (including tantalum instead of paper electros). But it kind of doesn't matter if the entire board is a "fraud".
- Paint is definitely wrong. Plus it has been given a clear-coat by the look of it. Printing looks like non-Boss stencil. The case is almost certainly a re-house.
- Jacks are definitely wrong.
- Treadle and base rubbers are new - stick-on rubbers can be obtained from Roland so that might be what has happened here.
- Serial label is definitely a re-print. The numbers on the originals do not line up and are a different font.
- Pots are wrong.
It is definitely a not original, but it does have some value as a curiosity. Is it worth 100 Euros? Not to me. I'd pay $50 knowing it was a curiosity.
It feels like a huge amount of work. Perhaps this looks like the kind of project that someone would do "to see if they could do it"?
I'd be interested to know - how bright is the LED? LEDs on these pedals are old-tech and should be very dim.
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Re: Used PH-1r - is it really in original condition?
Thank you very much for your comprehensive assessment Laurie!
So there seems to be nothing really original about the pedal - the amount of work that someone must have put into this is really crazy. The seller almost immediately pulled the "you are the real fraud" card, I think there will be no further dialogue. He claims that it wasn't his intention to scam me and that he doesn't have any expertise - even if that is believable I wonder why he offered the pedal as "vintage" and "MIJ" in the first place. As far as I understand, he bought the pedal from someone else, too. Given his attitude there will be no stories about the origin of the pedal I suppose.
Anyway, it's just not economical to pursue any kind of legal action as far as I can see and given the German law. So even if the pedal is not the collectors item i was keen on (and definitely not worth a 100 bucks to me), perhaps I can utilize it in an interesting way (what else can I do...).
I was just starting to write O Tempora, O Mores, when I thought about how great it is to have found this forum, to browse your interesting contributions and to benefit from your time and effort to help me this promptly.
So there seems to be nothing really original about the pedal - the amount of work that someone must have put into this is really crazy. The seller almost immediately pulled the "you are the real fraud" card, I think there will be no further dialogue. He claims that it wasn't his intention to scam me and that he doesn't have any expertise - even if that is believable I wonder why he offered the pedal as "vintage" and "MIJ" in the first place. As far as I understand, he bought the pedal from someone else, too. Given his attitude there will be no stories about the origin of the pedal I suppose.
Anyway, it's just not economical to pursue any kind of legal action as far as I can see and given the German law. So even if the pedal is not the collectors item i was keen on (and definitely not worth a 100 bucks to me), perhaps I can utilize it in an interesting way (what else can I do...).
I was just starting to write O Tempora, O Mores, when I thought about how great it is to have found this forum, to browse your interesting contributions and to benefit from your time and effort to help me this promptly.
Last edited by Erwinsoundsystem on Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living."
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Re: Used PH-1r - is it really in original condition?
The LED is a modern bright one:
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"The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living."
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Re: Used PH-1r - is it really in original condition?
Out of curiosity I posted an ad on Ebay Germany (it works like "classified ads" if that is the right expression in English) to find the original builder of the pedal. I immediately received messages from people who had noticed the ad, too.
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anz ... 95-74-9368
The text says:
I bought here on Ebay according to the offer a MIJ Boss PH-1r Phaser. Unfortunately, I received a very well made plagiarism. Apparently, it is a complete plagiarism: from the circuit board to the labels to the paint job of the enclosure, everything seems to be self-made. The discussion about this can be read in the BossArea forum: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=598.
According to the seller, he bought the pedal used himself. I am now looking for the person who built the pedal: I would love to hear the story about this curious pedal (no bad intentions or hidden agenda - I promise). If you read this, please get in touch with me.
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anz ... 95-74-9368
The text says:
I bought here on Ebay according to the offer a MIJ Boss PH-1r Phaser. Unfortunately, I received a very well made plagiarism. Apparently, it is a complete plagiarism: from the circuit board to the labels to the paint job of the enclosure, everything seems to be self-made. The discussion about this can be read in the BossArea forum: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=598.
According to the seller, he bought the pedal used himself. I am now looking for the person who built the pedal: I would love to hear the story about this curious pedal (no bad intentions or hidden agenda - I promise). If you read this, please get in touch with me.
"The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living."
- Pepe
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Re: Used PH-1r - is it really in original condition?
Yay!Erwinsoundsystem wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:15 pmThat's a great demo and actually one of the videos i watched that convinced me to buy the pedal in the first place.
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Re: Used PH-1r - is it really in original condition?
So how does it sound compared to Pepe's demo?
- laurie
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Re: Used PH-1r - is it really in original condition?
Definitely too bright.