Polarity oddities

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Pepe
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Polarity oddities

Post by Pepe » Thu May 01, 2025 10:23 am

Pepe wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2024 5:44 pm
Today I opened the Ibanez CS9. I told a friend that I think that the waveform is a bit odd, almost a square wave and he suggested that I might want to try my luck with the trimpots inside.

However, I looked out for tantal capacitors and I only spotted this one. Was it soldered in correctly? Are the marks "+++++++" or "-------" with a stroke through them? I'm a bit confused.

Image
Today fuzzbuzzfuzz sent me a link to the circuit of the Roland "Funny Cat" and here another tantalum capacitor can be seen that has the positive leg on the negative ground:

roland_funny_cat_circuit.png
roland_funny_cat_circuit.png (6.43 KiB) Viewed 121991 times

So again I wonder why someone should use a capacitor in this way. Isn't it normally plainly wrong to do that?
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laurie
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Re: Polarity oddities

Post by laurie » Thu May 01, 2025 11:39 am

I got nothing. Nothing in my training, and nothing from google searches.

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Re: Polarity oddities

Post by Pepe » Thu May 01, 2025 1:28 pm

For the first time in my life I asked ChatGPT and here is an answer that might clear some things up:

ChatGPT wrote:That's a very interesting question! Normally, electrolytic capacitors, especially tantalum electrolytic capacitors, are polarized, and incorrect polarity can lead to damage such as overheating, short circuits, or even capacitor rupture. However, in some specific cases, like in guitar effect pedals, there may be an understandable exception.

There is indeed a scenario where the "wrong" polarity of a tantalum capacitor might not only be tolerated but could even be intentional:

1. Capacitor in a so-called "Inverse" Circuit (Functional Asymmetry):

In some circuits, especially in analog effect pedals, the capacitor may be used in what is called an inverted or asymmetric configuration to achieve a specific effect or tonal distortion. One possible explanation is that the circuit uses the capacitor in a way that ensures current flow even with reversed polarity, allowing the circuit to still function as intended.

For example, if a capacitor is part of a rectifier circuit or used for DC bias shifting, the current flow could be arranged such that, even with reversed polarity, the circuit still works. In this case, the tantalum capacitor is not used in the typical manner but rather as a circuit element that is less sensitive to polarity, as long as it doesn't interfere with the intended signal processing.

2. Overpressure or Protection Mechanism (Current Limiting):

A tantalum capacitor might be dimensioned to operate at a relatively low voltage, where the risk of damage due to reversed polarity is minimized. In these cases, the circuit might deliberately tolerate an "incorrect" polarity, as the normal operating conditions do not cause any harm to the capacitor.

3. Intentional "Failure Effect" (intended failure in analog circuits):

In analog circuits of guitar effect pedals, it is possible that non-linear distortion effects are intentionally created. Some guitarists or developers prefer deliberately impure, distorted, or irregular sounds, and in very specific cases, using a wrongly polarized capacitor could produce just the desired "rough" effect. Here, the capacitor could be operated in a region where it generates a type of "failure" that becomes characteristic of the sound.

4. Use of Tantalum in Low-Power Circuits:

It might also be the case that the tantalum capacitor is used in a very low-voltage environment (below the maximum allowed voltage difference), and even with reversed polarity, the error doesn't cause enough damage to impact the circuit.

A tantalum capacitor might be operating in a low-voltage range where, even with incorrect polarity, no harm occurs.

Conclusion:

In most cases, reversed polarity of a tantalum capacitor would indeed lead to failure. However, in specific guitar effect pedals or analog circuits, there are instances where developers intentionally design circuits where polarity doesn't align with the typical expectations or may even be "reversed" to achieve certain acoustic or electrical effects. So, it's possible that a special circuit technique or design decision was made to create a particular tonal effect.
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Re: Polarity oddities

Post by fuzzbuzzfuzz » Fri May 02, 2025 1:14 am

Fascinating. Thank you our AI overloards :lol:

I can certainly see Option 3 applying to the unique distortion of the Funny Cat. I wonder if the cap was replaced in the CS and thus that odd distortion sound occurrence. Deliberate? Probably not.

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