The Unobtainable Ones

[laurie]

Those numbers on the transistors tell me they likely took a large batch then sorted them into gain buckets. It is exactly what I used to do in the DingoTone days - label every transistor with a serial number from 1-to-1000 then test each one and log the gain. Then pick out the serial numbers that fit the need of the circuit.

The yield may not be high:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=491&start=20#p4120

But they can just order 50,000 more and keep testing.

SMD is just taking-the-piss.

And three trimpots? Only one is required to balance the circuit when the right devices are used. I guess maybe they are for something "Waza" that isn't obvious.

[Pepe]

SMD?! What the ... ?! I had expected at least through-hole technology for the price of and the hype about this pedal.

[The_Doc]

I hope that Boss recognise that they have been found out, make some more and sell them at a reasonable price. Some chance

[Old_Iron]

Looking to the Boss releases after the TE-2, one can see that very few models can be called innovations.

Maybe the VO-1 and SY-1...

But all the rest are only reproductions of older models, a few improvements in another, commemorative models and partnerships with someone else.

They saw the hype over the "boutique" market and over the "mods" made by people like Wampler, Analogman and others, and decided that they could do big money boarding that party.

By the way, modded pedals are very expensive in Japan, even a DS-1 "home-modded" cost well above the normal price, maybe that have influenced their minds.

And we all know how efficient Boss is in cutting costs, many of what we call "variants" are in fact their efforts to increase profits.

But is getting clear that they are crossing a line here, I am feeling a bit dumb in spending so much money trying to "complete" my collection with those recent models.

[The_Doc]

Interestingly, over the last few days, I’ve seen a couple of TB-2Ws at lower prices. Still ridiculous but falling nevertheless.

[sclitheroe]

But they can just order 50,000 more and keep testing.

So in your estimation, in lots of 50k, what is the per-piece price of a transistor, and what is the ratio of usable to rejects?

I'm trying to figure out what the component pricing is for three Ge transistors, when they buy in large quantities, factoring in the wastage on components that test out of spec (eg. if each transistor is 10 cents a piece, and they need to find 1 out of 100 that work, we know the transistors are worth $30 bucks in the bill of materials).

I also wonder if a modern semiconductor fab like CEN can more reliably produce devices that conform to the desired spec - we've come a long way in how we fab semiconductors, and surely the material purity is higher too.

We know a fully built analog SMD Boss pedal can retail for somewhere in let's say the $100 to $120 range, so I'm trying to figure out what a mass production TB-2W should cost, factoring in the higher component pricing of the Ge bits. I'm guessing it's not more than $30 per pedal - especially since they'd get CEN to bin the parts; they aren't measuring them themselves at the Boss factory (hell, they aren't even doing the SMD construction at the Boss factory, that's outsourced too)

[laurie]

If (and it really is an "if") they have automated testing of the gains - ie. feed 10,000 devices into a machine that automatically sorts them... I'd say cost would be in the $10 to $20 per device. Less if the manufacturing tolerances are good and the gain yield is high.

Sorting by hand... with low yield it could cost $20 to $40 per device - the time taken to test (say) 100 devices to find one good one.

I could be WAY off, but I'd estimate difference in the manufacturing cost of the TB-2w compared to the cost of something like a DD-8 would be marginal.

[bigtone23]

If (and it really is an "if") they have automated testing of the gains - ie. feed 10,000 devices into a machine that automatically sorts them... I'd say cost would be in the $10 to $20 per device. Less if the manufacturing tolerances are good and the gain yield is high.

Sorting by hand... with low yield it could cost $20 to $40 per device - the time taken to test (say) 100 devices to find one good one.

I could be WAY off, but I'd estimate difference in the manufacturing cost of the TB-2w compared to the cost of something like a DD-8 would be marginal.

This seems so spot on.
BOSS certainly has the resources to efficiently build any pedal, regardless of the component pricing. It sort of makes my head spin thinking about it.

[Gasgano]

2200$ for a fuzz is about 10 times what anybody should pay. I mean, I've had the chance to play a fuzz built by a board member here that sounded amazing without all the buying power Roland Corporation has (Yes, it's Laurie. Yes it was a Dingtone GHF).

Like all of you, I call BS on Boss for that TB-2W. Failed marketing stunt IMHO.

[The_Doc]

There are definitely a lot of TB-2Ws hitting the secondhand market right now. I wonder if supply will outstrip demand to cause prices to fall.